The Bolshoi Theater is now slowly but steadily overcoming the consequences of the 90s crisis. And we owe positive changes in the theater not least to its musical director and chief conductor, Alexander Vedernikov.
The maestro has welcomed the 2008, as they say, "on-job." After a successful performance in St. Petersburg, the choir and orchestra of the theater went to Milan. There they gave three concerts in the famous La Scala and earned an enthusiastic welcome from the Italian audience. Alexander Vedernikov told the "Itogi" correspondent about the tour, the vicissitudes of the theater restoration period, competition and media policy.
— Did La Scala appreciate the Bolshoi Orchestra?
— To be honest, I didn't even expect such a standing ovation, such a warm welcome. We were in the mood for work and very seriously prepared for this tour. The Italians completely sold out all tickets for three performances — the hall was packed. We included Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff and Prokofiev in the program.
The audience has responded enthusiastically to these pieces. In general, we have developed partnerships with La Scala. There are three tours on each side - ballet, orchestra and opera. Mr. Lissner (CEO of La Scala. — "Itogi") vividly responded to our proposal for such an exchange.
— Let’s turn back time to the beginning of the season. It opened with the "Queen of Spades", created under the direction of Mikhail Pletnev. The critics' reaction is highly ambiguous. What do you think?
— "The Queen of Spades" is one of those performances that begin to reveal all its facets not the first time. The performance turned out to be quite stylish. There were some stage design difficulties, but this is a mere detail. For me, unusual reading is above all. The role of Herman drew criticism in the media, who thought that dramatically this character turned out to be unconvincing. And it seems to me that in vocal terms it was quite interesting.
— What other productions do you believe in?
— While having a single small stage, the theater can afford four, at best, five productions. Releasing new performances all the time is economically hard. Therefore, if we talk about trends, we should consider two or three seasons rather than one to evaluate them. Then I would call everything that happens with us a period of rethinking national classics.
— Is that to say Updating?
— That's just the term I wouldn't use. After all, deliberate novelty, as well as ostentatious tradition, are not artistic but opportunistic notions. "Well, you see, they asked me to make a traditional performance, otherwise the audience will not understand!" Or vice versa: "I was asked to do something mod - so I do something mod!" Is that an approach?
— Yes, it is, but not yours.
— It is definitely not ours. It is another matter altogether to make new things arise from the score textual research, while the direction takes into account how much the musical text corresponds to the original.
This was the case, for example, of “Boris Godunov”. I think we have to be inquisitive. After all, operating tried-and-true capacities — say, "Eugene Onegin" and "Queen of Spades" staging dated 1944, "Boris Godunov" staging dated 1948, is a dead end. At some point, all the corpses will certainly rot...
— The spectators will stop attending the theater or, quite the opposite, will eternally attend it as if it was a mausoleum?
— Productions just lose their meaning. It's like you were restarting some kind of computer game for the hundredth time: the same sort of thing. The artistic connections that the creators of the play had invested in it have already died. So what? For sixty years, have we not been able to offer our spectators a new reading?
— But the spectators are pleased. "Naphthalene" is always sold out, you know. And what’s it’s power? Is it not the popular opinion?
— Spectators, you say? But what do you mean by this?
— I mean those who bring profits. Of course, I realize that democracy is harmful to art…
— The spectators are different. There are ones who don't care what to see. Here they are anticipating, and finally they come, not just anywhere but to the Bolshoi Theater...
— Don't even suggest going to a “smaller” one!
— Exactly. If it is not THE Bolshoi Theater, both the chandelier and the atmosphere are not the same. Should we take such a spectator into account? What kind of "Eugene Onegin" does he/she need?
But there are also other spectators, who attend the Bolshoi Theater every day. There are four "Royal Brides" in a row, so that person attends the four ones. And then he/she says: "The artist Petrov performed worse today than the day before yesterday! And the artist Ivanova this time did not fully reveal the Martha character, let's hope tomorrow she will do better."
And finally, there are true believers with their own criteria. They are not interested in the director's reading, as long as everyone is in historical costumes. If the text says "forest" — so, there must be a forest. If the text says "sea" — then, ships must sail. The question is, to what extent should we be responsible for the expectations and taste level of such a spectator?
Imagine that we are 100 percent guided by them — this would be a downward path. When I collaborated with the Moscow Philharmonic, I was invited to conduct the State Orchestra.
"And what would you like to perform?"
"Well, let it be Bruckner's Symphony." And they say:
"Oh no-o-o... It would be better to give Tchaikovsky’s Fifth Symphony! "
"But you just have it performed every fortnight, aren’t you?"
"But it is sold very well!"
They won’t see us doing that. "Eugene Onegin", "Boris Godunov", "Queen of Spades" are all together moving us to a different direction. We will be proactive. Otherwise, what happens? Today the spectators attend a dozen popular operas, within five years there will be five, then three, and finally there won't be anything left. If you want to please someone, you can just stage a musical and leave it at that.
— But you didn't mention another kind of spectators. They are brought up with the love of epatage, provocation. They attend a performance as long as there is some scandal and they do not care of the rest of the artist’s intention. Right?
— There is that sort of person. I’ve seen them while Fabre's choreographic composition was given in our theater. The whole performance was called "My desires are lonely, like stray dogs." There was a certain erotic background, which caused a noticeable stratification among the audience. The people were both delighted and indignant. Yet, you know, this was a useful reaction...
— What do you mean by useful?
— Let me explain. When you attend a comic opera performance in Germany, the audience is very responsive. People laugh when you need them to laugh, cry when you need them to cry. And here in the Bolshoi Theater, the spectators seem to believe that any manifestation of emotions equals bad manners. While performing "Boris Godunov" in London, the audience has began to laugh loudly at Marina Mnishek offering her marital loyalty in exchange for the Moscow throne. Indeed, the British spectators consider this to be extremely cynical and indecent. While in Moscow, this kind of scenas does not cause any emotion.
— Is this about stony insensitivity?
— No, this is about conservatism.
— And what about leaks scandals? Here for example, before the premiere of "Eugene Onegin" some people close to the theater have long debated how Tatiana would send SMS to Onegin: sitting in the restroom or not. Is this also a "useful reaction"?
— Yeshua said in the "Master and Margarita", "your life is scarce, Igemon". Their life is scarce alike, they try to fill it. Why not discuss whether there will be sexual acts or not? Of course they will! How can you doubt? Even though no one has seen anything yet. Such people enjoy the mere gossip process. Well, we can feel sorry for them. At the same time, this shows that people are interested.
— Is it quite depressing?
—Absolutely. I am not a somewhat long-liver of the Bolshoi Theater, I have been working here for about six years. If I got to face it during my first year at the theater, I could be confused. But now I know: it is perfectly natural. After all, no one has canceled the provocative function of art, even if the performance is not provocative at all and the notorious SMS is never sent. We should be proactive about what is happening. And even, perhaps, we should allow information leakages.
— But some people may be offended. Galina Pavlovna Vishnevskaya, for example, loved "dear Tatiana" so much. What about that?
— Yes, some people are offended. Of course, Galina Pavlovna is not “some people”, but it doesn't really matter. Imagine, here I turn on the TV, I don't like anything. And I also do not like the road conditions, ecology, architectural style in Moscow. What should I do? Should I die? Still we are alive! Anastasia Volochkova once stated: "I was taken away the Bolshoi Theater". Do you remember the heated discussions? Was it really so important? It’s the same thing: Galina Pavlovna did not like the "Eugene Onegin" staging. I am sorry.
— For more than six years you have been directing the Bolshoi Theater music. What are you happy/unhappy about?
— If I start talking in this perspective, we will get either a report to a congress or self-promotion. Neither is close to me. Perhaps one thing is frustrating: I could have done more. We partially compensate for the shortage by the increased number of tours. And I have to tell you that the demand for us has grown abroad. Yet, there was a period when the theater artists did not tour much — it was not because they could not or did not want, but because they were not invited. Whereas today, they are invited averywhere.
— Why did it happen?
— In 50–60s The Bolshoi Theater had a huge reputation. There were really a lot of outstanding things, given that USSR was a closed-off and a somewhat mysterious country. Late 70s and 80s, there was the beginning of a crisis. Yet, for the time being, the Bolshoi reputation still remained, but later it was badly spoiled. And all this was happening contrasted with the rise of the Mariinsky Theater, that is, two different processes entered the resonance.
It was difficult to turn the tide, but it seems to me that the crisis has already been overcome. Among all the world’s major stages, there is not a single venue we have not negotiated with or went on tour. So "out there" everything is getting better.
— And at your home theater, what are you short of?
— Using a dry bureaucratic language: manpower development. In the theater, a lot has changed recently, while few if any have changed in music universities. No music university produces choir artists, and we cannot afford to employ choristers with insufficient education, as it was the case a few years ago.
In the time being, a "huge" voice came to us, and was immediately employed. And we were bothering a lot studying operas. Back then, each opera was studied for 5-6 months, although the normal period is one month, with a maximum of one and a half.
— One of the signs of recovery is that the Bolshoi Theater begins to compete with the Mariinsky. I mean the case both theatres performing Shostakovich in England. You’ve no doubt read the article by Lebrecht about this, the famous “battle lion vs elephant”, haven’t you?
— Yes, I’ve read it! The article is flattering for the Bolshoi Theater, of course. But as soon as it was published, the first thing I heard was, "Ah! You paid Lebrecht!" And we others to prove that we aren’t trolls: "No, we have nothing to do with it".
— There was a gentleman's truce agreement with Mariinka, right?
— That’s right. As you can see, I don't tell you anything about the Mariinsky Theater. We have some principles of management, and they have others. As the Chinese comrades said, one country, two systems. Therefore, we successfully coexist with each other. We do not make corporate wars, and competition is natural!
— Up to an overlapping repertoire? The Mariinsky "Turandot" being staged a month before the Bolshoi one, is this a truce?
— I used to answer this kind of questions: that’s because they like this music, too! (Smiles). Well, right? As you note, I don’t say: we were the first to schedule it! Things done cannot be undone.
— In your opinion, is the era of repertory theater being over?
— Yes, I think, it is. As long as the theatre remains repertory, it is provincial. Just like German theatres tied with the local repertoire: German singers and German opera unable to perform in French because they don’t master this language.
— And such a nice thing as a school, a mouvement - can it appear under non-repertory theatre conditions?
— Do you need a school? You see, a school is a somewhere domestic pleasure anyway. There can be no school in opera. Opera is an international thing, sung in the original language with the best performers, one is invited to perform Mephistopheles, another, to perform Sigmund. Musical theater is different, everything is sung only in the national language there. There is a primacy of the director, and everyone is developing one system. The Nemirovich-Danchenko one, let's say... There is "Covent Garden" and the English National Opera, "Staatsoper" and "Komische operas..." The problem is that our theaters are positioning themselves incorrectly. With five opera theaters in Moscow, of course, there are some problems.
— Does the Bolshoi Theater intend to commission any operas in the short term, like “Children of Rosenthal” by Desyatnikov?
— We do things a little differently now. Recently, together with the Union of Theater Workers, we have announced a competition for a new opera. For children and youth, as it was used to be said. I would like to get a somewhat academic work, but I am afraid that we will be inundated with musicals. Now we’re going to make a presentation, and in a year and a half or in two years something will clear up.
— Recently I found information about... just don't laugh... Supposedly, talks are being held with the Americans about the production of the opera "Yeltsin in Germany". They even report the saying from the aria of the main character: "We will not go anywhere, we will save two percent." What do you say?
— I've seen this article. We have already analyzed it. It’s a nonsense, of course. Apparently, there is some person who is well acquainted with the decision-making process in the Bolshoi Theater, he/she invented this nonsense and launched it. And the theater has to make a statement, assigning a spokesman: "No, we refute it”. It wasn't really like that. It's just that in America we were negotiating with Glass to compose a new opera on Tarkovsky's libretto, which he did not have time to complete, under the name "Hoffmaniana." Negotiations were unsuccessful. It was four years ago. And that’s all. End of the story. Good thing, it never occurred to anyone that we even ordered this article.
The maestro has welcomed the 2008, as they say, "on-job." After a successful performance in St. Petersburg, the choir and orchestra of the theater went to Milan. There they gave three concerts in the famous La Scala and earned an enthusiastic welcome from the Italian audience. Alexander Vedernikov told the "Itogi" correspondent about the tour, the vicissitudes of the theater restoration period, competition and media policy.
— Did La Scala appreciate the Bolshoi Orchestra?
— To be honest, I didn't even expect such a standing ovation, such a warm welcome. We were in the mood for work and very seriously prepared for this tour. The Italians completely sold out all tickets for three performances — the hall was packed. We included Tchaikovsky, Rachmaninoff and Prokofiev in the program.
The audience has responded enthusiastically to these pieces. In general, we have developed partnerships with La Scala. There are three tours on each side - ballet, orchestra and opera. Mr. Lissner (CEO of La Scala. — "Itogi") vividly responded to our proposal for such an exchange.
— Let’s turn back time to the beginning of the season. It opened with the "Queen of Spades", created under the direction of Mikhail Pletnev. The critics' reaction is highly ambiguous. What do you think?
— "The Queen of Spades" is one of those performances that begin to reveal all its facets not the first time. The performance turned out to be quite stylish. There were some stage design difficulties, but this is a mere detail. For me, unusual reading is above all. The role of Herman drew criticism in the media, who thought that dramatically this character turned out to be unconvincing. And it seems to me that in vocal terms it was quite interesting.
— What other productions do you believe in?
— While having a single small stage, the theater can afford four, at best, five productions. Releasing new performances all the time is economically hard. Therefore, if we talk about trends, we should consider two or three seasons rather than one to evaluate them. Then I would call everything that happens with us a period of rethinking national classics.
— Is that to say Updating?
— That's just the term I wouldn't use. After all, deliberate novelty, as well as ostentatious tradition, are not artistic but opportunistic notions. "Well, you see, they asked me to make a traditional performance, otherwise the audience will not understand!" Or vice versa: "I was asked to do something mod - so I do something mod!" Is that an approach?
— Yes, it is, but not yours.
— It is definitely not ours. It is another matter altogether to make new things arise from the score textual research, while the direction takes into account how much the musical text corresponds to the original.
This was the case, for example, of “Boris Godunov”. I think we have to be inquisitive. After all, operating tried-and-true capacities — say, "Eugene Onegin" and "Queen of Spades" staging dated 1944, "Boris Godunov" staging dated 1948, is a dead end. At some point, all the corpses will certainly rot...
— The spectators will stop attending the theater or, quite the opposite, will eternally attend it as if it was a mausoleum?
— Productions just lose their meaning. It's like you were restarting some kind of computer game for the hundredth time: the same sort of thing. The artistic connections that the creators of the play had invested in it have already died. So what? For sixty years, have we not been able to offer our spectators a new reading?
— But the spectators are pleased. "Naphthalene" is always sold out, you know. And what’s it’s power? Is it not the popular opinion?
— Spectators, you say? But what do you mean by this?
— I mean those who bring profits. Of course, I realize that democracy is harmful to art…
— The spectators are different. There are ones who don't care what to see. Here they are anticipating, and finally they come, not just anywhere but to the Bolshoi Theater...
— Don't even suggest going to a “smaller” one!
— Exactly. If it is not THE Bolshoi Theater, both the chandelier and the atmosphere are not the same. Should we take such a spectator into account? What kind of "Eugene Onegin" does he/she need?
But there are also other spectators, who attend the Bolshoi Theater every day. There are four "Royal Brides" in a row, so that person attends the four ones. And then he/she says: "The artist Petrov performed worse today than the day before yesterday! And the artist Ivanova this time did not fully reveal the Martha character, let's hope tomorrow she will do better."
And finally, there are true believers with their own criteria. They are not interested in the director's reading, as long as everyone is in historical costumes. If the text says "forest" — so, there must be a forest. If the text says "sea" — then, ships must sail. The question is, to what extent should we be responsible for the expectations and taste level of such a spectator?
Imagine that we are 100 percent guided by them — this would be a downward path. When I collaborated with the Moscow Philharmonic, I was invited to conduct the State Orchestra.
"And what would you like to perform?"
"Well, let it be Bruckner's Symphony." And they say:
"Oh no-o-o... It would be better to give Tchaikovsky’s Fifth Symphony! "
"But you just have it performed every fortnight, aren’t you?"
"But it is sold very well!"
They won’t see us doing that. "Eugene Onegin", "Boris Godunov", "Queen of Spades" are all together moving us to a different direction. We will be proactive. Otherwise, what happens? Today the spectators attend a dozen popular operas, within five years there will be five, then three, and finally there won't be anything left. If you want to please someone, you can just stage a musical and leave it at that.
— But you didn't mention another kind of spectators. They are brought up with the love of epatage, provocation. They attend a performance as long as there is some scandal and they do not care of the rest of the artist’s intention. Right?
— There is that sort of person. I’ve seen them while Fabre's choreographic composition was given in our theater. The whole performance was called "My desires are lonely, like stray dogs." There was a certain erotic background, which caused a noticeable stratification among the audience. The people were both delighted and indignant. Yet, you know, this was a useful reaction...
— What do you mean by useful?
— Let me explain. When you attend a comic opera performance in Germany, the audience is very responsive. People laugh when you need them to laugh, cry when you need them to cry. And here in the Bolshoi Theater, the spectators seem to believe that any manifestation of emotions equals bad manners. While performing "Boris Godunov" in London, the audience has began to laugh loudly at Marina Mnishek offering her marital loyalty in exchange for the Moscow throne. Indeed, the British spectators consider this to be extremely cynical and indecent. While in Moscow, this kind of scenas does not cause any emotion.
— Is this about stony insensitivity?
— No, this is about conservatism.
— And what about leaks scandals? Here for example, before the premiere of "Eugene Onegin" some people close to the theater have long debated how Tatiana would send SMS to Onegin: sitting in the restroom or not. Is this also a "useful reaction"?
— Yeshua said in the "Master and Margarita", "your life is scarce, Igemon". Their life is scarce alike, they try to fill it. Why not discuss whether there will be sexual acts or not? Of course they will! How can you doubt? Even though no one has seen anything yet. Such people enjoy the mere gossip process. Well, we can feel sorry for them. At the same time, this shows that people are interested.
— Is it quite depressing?
—Absolutely. I am not a somewhat long-liver of the Bolshoi Theater, I have been working here for about six years. If I got to face it during my first year at the theater, I could be confused. But now I know: it is perfectly natural. After all, no one has canceled the provocative function of art, even if the performance is not provocative at all and the notorious SMS is never sent. We should be proactive about what is happening. And even, perhaps, we should allow information leakages.
— But some people may be offended. Galina Pavlovna Vishnevskaya, for example, loved "dear Tatiana" so much. What about that?
— Yes, some people are offended. Of course, Galina Pavlovna is not “some people”, but it doesn't really matter. Imagine, here I turn on the TV, I don't like anything. And I also do not like the road conditions, ecology, architectural style in Moscow. What should I do? Should I die? Still we are alive! Anastasia Volochkova once stated: "I was taken away the Bolshoi Theater". Do you remember the heated discussions? Was it really so important? It’s the same thing: Galina Pavlovna did not like the "Eugene Onegin" staging. I am sorry.
— For more than six years you have been directing the Bolshoi Theater music. What are you happy/unhappy about?
— If I start talking in this perspective, we will get either a report to a congress or self-promotion. Neither is close to me. Perhaps one thing is frustrating: I could have done more. We partially compensate for the shortage by the increased number of tours. And I have to tell you that the demand for us has grown abroad. Yet, there was a period when the theater artists did not tour much — it was not because they could not or did not want, but because they were not invited. Whereas today, they are invited averywhere.
— Why did it happen?
— In 50–60s The Bolshoi Theater had a huge reputation. There were really a lot of outstanding things, given that USSR was a closed-off and a somewhat mysterious country. Late 70s and 80s, there was the beginning of a crisis. Yet, for the time being, the Bolshoi reputation still remained, but later it was badly spoiled. And all this was happening contrasted with the rise of the Mariinsky Theater, that is, two different processes entered the resonance.
It was difficult to turn the tide, but it seems to me that the crisis has already been overcome. Among all the world’s major stages, there is not a single venue we have not negotiated with or went on tour. So "out there" everything is getting better.
— And at your home theater, what are you short of?
— Using a dry bureaucratic language: manpower development. In the theater, a lot has changed recently, while few if any have changed in music universities. No music university produces choir artists, and we cannot afford to employ choristers with insufficient education, as it was the case a few years ago.
In the time being, a "huge" voice came to us, and was immediately employed. And we were bothering a lot studying operas. Back then, each opera was studied for 5-6 months, although the normal period is one month, with a maximum of one and a half.
— One of the signs of recovery is that the Bolshoi Theater begins to compete with the Mariinsky. I mean the case both theatres performing Shostakovich in England. You’ve no doubt read the article by Lebrecht about this, the famous “battle lion vs elephant”, haven’t you?
— Yes, I’ve read it! The article is flattering for the Bolshoi Theater, of course. But as soon as it was published, the first thing I heard was, "Ah! You paid Lebrecht!" And we others to prove that we aren’t trolls: "No, we have nothing to do with it".
— There was a gentleman's truce agreement with Mariinka, right?
— That’s right. As you can see, I don't tell you anything about the Mariinsky Theater. We have some principles of management, and they have others. As the Chinese comrades said, one country, two systems. Therefore, we successfully coexist with each other. We do not make corporate wars, and competition is natural!
— Up to an overlapping repertoire? The Mariinsky "Turandot" being staged a month before the Bolshoi one, is this a truce?
— I used to answer this kind of questions: that’s because they like this music, too! (Smiles). Well, right? As you note, I don’t say: we were the first to schedule it! Things done cannot be undone.
— In your opinion, is the era of repertory theater being over?
— Yes, I think, it is. As long as the theatre remains repertory, it is provincial. Just like German theatres tied with the local repertoire: German singers and German opera unable to perform in French because they don’t master this language.
— And such a nice thing as a school, a mouvement - can it appear under non-repertory theatre conditions?
— Do you need a school? You see, a school is a somewhere domestic pleasure anyway. There can be no school in opera. Opera is an international thing, sung in the original language with the best performers, one is invited to perform Mephistopheles, another, to perform Sigmund. Musical theater is different, everything is sung only in the national language there. There is a primacy of the director, and everyone is developing one system. The Nemirovich-Danchenko one, let's say... There is "Covent Garden" and the English National Opera, "Staatsoper" and "Komische operas..." The problem is that our theaters are positioning themselves incorrectly. With five opera theaters in Moscow, of course, there are some problems.
— Does the Bolshoi Theater intend to commission any operas in the short term, like “Children of Rosenthal” by Desyatnikov?
— We do things a little differently now. Recently, together with the Union of Theater Workers, we have announced a competition for a new opera. For children and youth, as it was used to be said. I would like to get a somewhat academic work, but I am afraid that we will be inundated with musicals. Now we’re going to make a presentation, and in a year and a half or in two years something will clear up.
— Recently I found information about... just don't laugh... Supposedly, talks are being held with the Americans about the production of the opera "Yeltsin in Germany". They even report the saying from the aria of the main character: "We will not go anywhere, we will save two percent." What do you say?
— I've seen this article. We have already analyzed it. It’s a nonsense, of course. Apparently, there is some person who is well acquainted with the decision-making process in the Bolshoi Theater, he/she invented this nonsense and launched it. And the theater has to make a statement, assigning a spokesman: "No, we refute it”. It wasn't really like that. It's just that in America we were negotiating with Glass to compose a new opera on Tarkovsky's libretto, which he did not have time to complete, under the name "Hoffmaniana." Negotiations were unsuccessful. It was four years ago. And that’s all. End of the story. Good thing, it never occurred to anyone that we even ordered this article.
Evgeny BELZHERARSKY,
"Itogi", January 21,.2008
"Itogi", January 21,.2008
A single Stage of a Big Path
